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The Mummy at the Georges Labit Museum in Toulouse

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Carbon dating on a mummy at the Georges Labit Museum in Toulouse, France showed that it was from about 1800 B.C.

The tests had laid waste to the opinion of some Egyptologists that it was only from around 700 B.C. That is a whopping difference of more than a thousand years. Thirty-eight hundred years old was the verdict. That should have been the end of it. But it wasn’t. Scientists had tested the mummy’s linen wrappings to arrive at the earlier date.  In 2009, only months before Dawkins’ book was published, scientist tested some bone taken from the mummy’s spine and concluded that the mummy was from about 700 B.C. after all. So, which is it? It is hard to say until someone can explain why the carbon dating of the linen cloth was so different than it was for the bone material. The floors of carbon dating laboratories are littered with such anomalies. In many cases these anomalies are eventually explained. Some have not been.

See: The Mummy at the Georges Labit Museum in Toulouse in chapter The Flat Earth Society

Written by Episcopalian

November 23, 2009 at 2:44 pm

Posted in Carbon 14 Dating

Richard Dawkins on the Shroud of Turin

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richard-dawkins Richard Dawkins discusses the Shroud in his latest book, The Greatest Show on Earth: The Evidence for Evolution, (September 22, 2009). Obviously, he is being selective with evidence. Here is what he says:

[Carbon dating] has revolutionized archaeological dating. The most celebrated example is the Shroud of Turin. Since this notorious piece of cloth seems mysteriously to have imprinted on it the image of a bearded crucified man, many people hoped it might hail from the time of Jesus. It turns up in the historical record in the mid-fourteenth century in France, and nobody knows where it was before that. It has been housed in Turin since 1578, under the custody of the Vatican since 1983. When mass spectrometry made it possible to date a tine sample of the shroud, rather than the substantial swathes that would have been needed before, the Vatican allowed a small strip to be cut off. The strip was divided in three parts and sent to three leading laboratories specializing in carbon dating, in Oxford, Arizona and Zurich. Working under conditions of scrupulous independence—not comparing notes—the three laboratories reported their verdicts on the date when the flax from which the cloth had been woven died. Oxford said ad 1200, Arizona 1304 and Zurich 1274. These dates are all—within normal margins of error—compatible with each other and with the date in the 1350s at which the shroud is first mentioned in history. The dating of the shroud remains controversial, but not for reasons that cast doubt on the carbon-dating technique itself. For example, the carbon in the shroud might have been contaminated by a fire, which is known to have occurred in 1532. I won’t pursue the matter further, because the shroud is of historical, not evolutionary, interest. It is a nice example, however, to illustrate the method, and the fact that, unlike dendrochronology, it is not accurate to the nearest year, only to the nearest century or so.

It is a well written book, and for people who enjoy the subject of evolution, as I do, it is a good read. But, as with theology, he is careless with material he doesn’t understand. Too bad.

Written by Episcopalian

October 20, 2009 at 12:20 pm

So what if the Shroud of Turin is a fake: Misses some points

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John Dodge over at smartplanet has written a level-headed article entitled So what if the Shroud of Turin is a fake. I have no problem with his skepticism. I do with perception of facts. I once shared his skepticism about the Shroud. No longer. But I do share the so what: I’ve inserted some comments in bold:

In 2004, a 10-year-old cheese sandwich with a likeness of the Virgin Mary reportedly sold for $28,000 on eBay. And on slow news days, local TV stations report Virgin Mary sightings on fogged windows and in cloud formations.

Many like me discount such fantasies as ridiculous, but what counts is the meaning of the cheese sandwich in the eyes of the beholder. Quite frankly, the site of a freshly grilled cheese sandwich makes me hungry.

That brings us to the Shroud of Turin, which was in the news again last week. I don’t pay a huge amount of attention to such things, but if someone asked me if the shroud was really Christ’s burial garb, I’d say “nonsense.”

Last week, Italian chemist and professor Luigi Garlaschelli also said “nonsense” after he recreated a shroud using the image of one of his students.

The Shroud next to Garlaschelli's student (right) credit: publicbroadcasting.net

The Shroud next to Garlaschelli’s student (r.) credit: publicbroadcasting.net

“Luigi Garlaschelli created a copy of the shroud by wrapping a specially woven cloth over one of his students, painting it with pigment, baking it in an oven (which he called a “shroud machine”) for several hours, then washing it,” according to a CNN story (see pic). “Then for the sake of completeness I have added the bloodstains, the burns, the scorching because there was a fire in 1532,” Garlaschelli said.

He claims his tests prove that some of the unique characteristics of the shroud such as the absence of paint or pigment can be replicated by an artist or his case, a scientist. Shroud defenders have long argued the shroud cannot be recreated.

Two points: 1) Garlaschelli was not able to create an image that has the same chemistry, physical properties and unique so-called 3D (height-field) characteristics of the image. He admits this. It looks something like the Shroud but that is not the point. 2) Only some Shroud defenders have made the claim that the image cannot be recreated. Most are more tempered saying that, so far, no one has been able to reproduce the images. Dodge would have us believe that authenticity proponents are “God-of-the-gaps” sorts. Not so.

Garlaschelli, also a professor at the University of Pavia,  is not the first to debunk the shroud. In 1988, three universities conducted carbon dating tests and concluded it was created between 1260 and 1380. That, of course, set off a firestorm. And some like RomanCathlicbog.com have rushed to discredit Garlaschelli’s findings, claiming he was funded by an “Italian association of atheists and agnostics.”

I agree that the funding issue is immaterial. In fact, the fact that he is a member of the funding organization is immaterial.

As for the carbon dating, the statement is true but misleading. In 2005, a peer-reviewed paper published in a scientific journal concluded that the tests were invalid. Now, you don’t have to accept that. But you should not ignore it. Mention it or mention it and explain why you disagree. You might want to note that the work was done by someone who was trying to defend the 1988 dating. You might want to mention that this work was later independently confirmed by a forensic material analyst at Georgia Tech as well as by a team of nine chemists at Los Alamos.

Actually, the official Vatican position on the shroud is quite rationale, focusing more on what the it means to believers rather than defending its authenticity.

“For the believer, what counts above all is that the shroud is a mirror of the Gospel. We cannot escape the idea that the image it presents has such a profound relationship with what the Gospels tell of Jesus’ passion and death, that every sensitive person feels inwardly touched and moved beholding it,” Pope John Paul II wrote of his 1998 visit to the Turin Cathedral where it is housed.

Agree!

John Paul II also said that proving or disproving its authenticity should be left to scientists. Who can argue with that?

Agree!

I have no problem with people believing what they want and I know faith has served powerfully in the lives of many. What the shroud represents is more important than whether it’s real on not. Unless someone invents a time machine so we can get a `film at 11′  eyewitness account, it will never be definitively proven one way or the other although the carbon tests seem pretty convincing.

I also think that heathen Garlaschelli who confesses to being a non-believer is onto something. As for the cheese sandwich, I have a hard time swallowing it, but someone willing to pay 28 grand didn’t.

So what if the Shroud of Turin is a fake – SmartPlanet

Written by Episcopalian

October 17, 2009 at 4:37 pm

Shroud of Turin Opinion

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Mita Jain’s Original Works Studio posts:

I’ve been thinking of talking more with you; talk about subjects besides my creative work. Hence, I thought I would devote this section to our generic chit-chat.

As a beginning, I want to talk about the ‘Shroud of Turin’. A few days back, I was watching History-Channel, and it was showing about the current researches being done on this highly controversial artifact.

The linen cloth bears the image of a man who was crucified, and the imagery is quite in sync with Jesus’s crucifixion.

There has been a lot of debate about whether this was actually the cloth, in which Jesus was buried, or if it was someone else or perhaps if it’s just a hoax. Carbon 14 dating was done to verify the time of the linen cloth, and it was found that the cloth was from Middle Ages, ie about 1300 years after Jesus’s death. This dampened the believers’ spirit. But a follow up research, proved that the sample cloth chosen initially was a bad one because the cloth had been repaired in Middle Ages. The cloth also survived fire, and hence could have radiocarbon content indicating towards wrong age.

Some people still believe that Turin’s shroud is a proof of Jesus’s sacrifice for the mankind. The others do not.

I believe that it doesn’t matter whether the shroud is actual or not. Even if it’s not real, if it can bring some kindness and peace to today’s human race, then there is no harm believing in it. If it can bring out goodness in today’s world, then there is no harm worshipping it. The power of belief and faith can do wonders. After all, isn’t this what religion is all about?

I don’t agree with everything said here, but I like the general tone.

Written by Episcopalian

March 12, 2009 at 11:57 am

Fundamentalist Ssnot, Redux

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Tatarize continues his rant at Ssnot (God Snot, Where God’s Not!):

A while back I mistakenly subjected myself to to some painful watching of nonsense by the BBC about the Shroud of Turin, in order to properly purge it from my system and do something slightly productive with it I decided to make a quick post on this blog about it.

Well, I was searching something or other involving my name and I managed to turn up a very interesting post, titled When Atheists Act Like Fundamentalists on Shroud of Turin Blog. Wow. I feel so special! Also, apparently Freepers got a copy of the shroud post. You know somebody must have tore the hell out of your post if the Free Republic batted it around. *smirk*

. . . Most of his "corrections" were based on nonsense that I already knew but long since discounted. Some Shroud people in order to "come to terms" with the radiocarbon dating, discount the dating by suggesting it was taken from the wrong place. I already knew that and found it utterly silly.

“I already knew that and found it utterly silly.” That is unquestionably fundamentalist talk; atheist fundamentalist talk — ignore the science.

The Shroud of Turin was carbon dated in 1988. The conclusion of those tests was that the cloth originated between 1260 and 1390.  However, tests recently conducted at the Los Alamos National Laboratory by a team of nine scientists under the direction of Robert Villarreal confirm what chemist Raymond Rogers found and published in a peer-reviewed scientific journal, Thermochimica Acta (Jan. 2005): The tested sample was not representative of the shroud’s cloth. Rogers’ findings had also been confirmed by Georgia Tech’s materials forensic chemist John L. Brown.

Even the Christopher Ramsey of the Oxford Radiocarbon Dating Laboratory, which participated in the original tests, has concluded the needs for new studies. Not Ssnot, he knows better than scientists.

A scientist will acknowledge that we might not have all the answers. A fundamentalist ignores such caution.

 

  1. Shroud of Turin Ohio State University Villarreal Lecture Part 1 of 5 (Above)
  2. Shroud of Turin Ohio State University Villarreal Lecture Part 2 of 5
  3. Shroud of Turin Ohio State University Villarreal Lecture Part 3 of 5
  4. Shroud of Turin Ohio State University Villarreal Lecture Part 4 of 5
  5. Shroud of Turin Ohio State University Villarreal Lecture Part 5 of 5

Written by Episcopalian

February 27, 2009 at 1:19 pm

Shroud of Turin Ohio State University Lecture on Carbon Dating Problem

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Written by Episcopalian

February 25, 2009 at 3:19 pm

Any takers for the ‘Turin Shroud’..?

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This is very funny. The blogger needs to get his facts straight, however.

It is 4cms long and could possibly be one of the most important religious relics in history.

Alternatively, it could be a shred of raggedy cloth.

Now one Kent man is hoping to put his ‘find’ to the test – by selling what he thinks may be part of the Turin Shroud on eBay! For a quid!

Arcade worker Wes Leonard has put the small piece of the cloth – which he tongue-in-cheek declares may be Christ’s death mask – up on the internet auction site with bids starting from £1.

He can’t remember where he bought the oval-shaped box about five years ago, but thinks it was either from a boot fair or from eBay and he paid about £5 for it.

Leysdown resident Mr Leonard, 52, has no intention of ripping people off and knows it is very unlikely to be a genuine piece, but is just giving people a laugh.

He said: "It’s a bit of mischief, I’m just having a bit of fun.

"There’s the great story about the Turin Shroud and how the pieces have disappeared – you never know. But it’s tongue in cheek."

• The Turin Shroud was discovered in the 14th century and for hundreds of years was believed to be the death mask of Jesus Christ. However, carbon dating in 1988 showed it to be a medieval fake.

Fact Check:

In 1988, dozens of scientists participated in the carbon dating of the shroud. Three outstanding radiocarbon dating labs at Oxford University, the University of Arizona and the Federal Institute of Technology in Zurich participated. The British Museum and the Archdiocese of Turin participated in supervisory roles. The conclusion: the shroud’s cloth was manufactured between 1260 and 1390 CE. The shroud, it seemed, could not be authentic.

What followed next is not well understood: There were a number of people after 1988, including several scientists, who were not convinced that the carbon dating results were right. In part, this was because there was a mountain of other evidence that suggested a much earlier provenance for the shroud and there were some very puzzling mysteries about the nature of the image. Some speculated on why the carbon dating might be wrong but none of the proposals seemed very scientific. It was mostly hypotheses that could not be falsified (ala Popper).

Two researchers, Sue Benford and Joe Marino, who were not scientists, proposed that the cloth had been mended in the seventeenth century in a corner from which the carbon dating samples were taken and thus what had been dated was probably a mixture of original cloth (presumably first century) and newer thread.

Raymond Rogers, a Fellow of the Los Alamos Laboratory was perplexed by this proposal that seemed to him very unscientific. As a chemist, he had personally examined the shroud in 1978, warning church official that he would report whatever he found. As it turns out, he did offer an opinion on the cloth’s authenticity because there were too many unanswered questions. However, in 1988, he accepted the carbon dating results and withdrew from further shroud study. When he read about what Benford and Marino were suggesting, he was certain that they were wrong. They were, as he put it, part of the lunatic fringe of shroud research. He was certain that he could prove they were wrong. He had some material from the sample corner and set out to do so.

Much to Rogers’ surprise, Benford and Marino were right. Rogers not only found substantial evidence of mending, he found stark chemical differences between the corner from which the carbon dating sample had been taken and the rest of the cloth. If there were chemical differences then the sample could not be reliably considered to be representative of the whole cloth. This invalidated the carbon dating.

Before publishing his findings in the peer-reviewed journal, Thermochimica Acta (vol 425 [2005] pp 189–194) in 2005, Rogers, with Anna Arnoldi of the University of Milan, published an informal paper in 2002. Though it was widely distributed, it received no comment from those who had been involved in the carbon dating. It wasn’t until 2004 when the Journal of Research of the National Institute of Standards and Technology (U.S. Department of Commerce, NIST, U.S.
Government Printing Office) published an important paper by Lloyd A. Currie. Currie, a highly regarded specialist in the field of radiocarbon dating and an NIST Fellow Emeritus, wrote a seminal retrospective on carbon 14 dating. Because the Shroud of Turin was such a famous test, Currie devoted much of his paper to it.
Like Rogers, Currie dismissed any argument that radiocarbon labs had done anything wrong in dating the Shroud of Turin. Currie also rejected, as Rogers also had done, other very unscientific proposal. But Currie did acknowledge that disguised mending was a viable explanation. He cited the work of Rogers and Arnoldi. He found it credible.

Rogers also asked John Brown, a materials forensic expert from Georgia Tech to confirm his finding using different methods. Brown did so. He also concluded that the shroud had been mended with newer material.

Since then, a team of nine scientists at Los Alamos has also confirmed Rogers work, also with different methods and procedures. Much of this new information has been recently published in Chemistry Today.

Any takers for the ‘Turin Shroud’..? | KentOnline| News

Written by Episcopalian

February 20, 2009 at 5:22 pm

Posted in Carbon 14 Dating

The Custodians of Time

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Good article from the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Zurich:

What began with a particle accelerator in the Laboratory of Nuclear Physics at ETH Zurich nearly half a century ago is now one of the world’s leading labs for ion beam physics. Having been converted into an accelerator mass spectrometer, today the particle accelerator is used to determine the age of historically significant objects.

. . .

This was the technique used at ETH Zurich to date renowned objects like the Turin Shroud or Ötzi, the frozen mummified corpse found in the Alps in 1991. Up until now, they have been the most famous objects to be dated at the Laboratory for Ion Beam Physics. To determine how old something is, a few milligrams of the object are burned and a graphite sample is produced from the resulting carbon dioxide. This is then analyzed in the AMS. The ratio of 14C atoms to 12C atoms compared to the initial concentration of 14C in the atmosphere defines the radiocarbon age which after calibration by the tree ring curves the true age of the sample. Traditional methods measure radioactive degradation. However, as the half-life increases, the decay becomes seldom and much more material is needed to obtain a good signal, explains Synal. The AMS method is three to four orders of magnitude more efficient. Here, the natural isotope ratios have a concentration of between 10-15 and 10-12 atoms in the material being examined. There are 1015 atoms of 12C for one 14C atom. Such a low proportion of 14C in the ratio therefore has to be measured with extreme precision, which is only possible with the AMS.

But we need to look at the full story:

There were a number of people after 1988, including several scientists, who were not convinced that the carbon dating results were right. In part, this was because there was a mountain of other evidence that suggested a much earlier provenance for the shroud and there were some very puzzling mysteries about the nature of the image. Some speculated on why the carbon dating might be wrong but none of the proposals seemed very scientific. It was mostly hypotheses that could not be falsified (ala Popper).

Two researchers, Sue Benford and Joe Marino, who were not scientists, proposed that the cloth had been mended in the seventeenth century in a corner from which the carbon dating samples were taken and thus what had been dated was probably a mixture of original cloth (presumably first century) and newer thread.

Raymond Rogers, a Fellow of the Los Alamos Laboratory was perplexed by this proposal that seemed to him very unscientific. As a chemist, he had personally examined the shroud in 1978, warning church official that he would report whatever he found. As it turns out, he did offer an opinion on the cloth’s authenticity because there were too many unanswered questions. However, in 1988, he accepted the carbon dating results and withdrew from further shroud study. When he read about what Benford and Marino were suggesting, he was certain that they were wrong. They were, as he put it, part of the lunatic fringe of shroud research. He was certain that he could prove they were wrong. He had some material from the sample corner and set out to do so.

Much to Rogers’ surprise, Benford and Marino were right. Rogers not only found substantial evidence of mending, he found stark chemical differences between the corner from which the carbon dating sample had been taken and the rest of the cloth. If there were chemical differences then the sample could not be reliably considered to be representative of the whole cloth. This invalidated the carbon dating.

Before publishing his findings in the peer-reviewed journal, Thermochimica Acta (vol 425 [2005] pp 189–194) in 2005, Rogers, with Anna Arnoldi of the University of Milan, published an informal paper in 2002. Though it was widely distributed, it received no comment from those who had been involved in the carbon dating. It wasn’t until 2004 when the Journal of Research of the National Institute of Standards and Technology (U.S. Department of Commerce, NIST, U.S.
Government Printing Office) published an important paper by Lloyd A. Currie. Currie, a highly regarded specialist in the field of radiocarbon dating and an NIST Fellow Emeritus, wrote a seminal retrospective on carbon 14 dating. Because the Shroud of Turin was such a famous test, Currie devoted much of his paper to it.
Like Rogers, Currie dismissed any argument that radiocarbon labs had done anything wrong in dating the Shroud of Turin. Currie also rejected, as Rogers also had done, other very unscientific proposal. But Currie did acknowledge that disguised mending was a viable explanation. He cited the work of Rogers and Arnoldi. He found it credible.

Rogers also asked John Brown, a materials forensic expert from Georgia Tech to confirm his finding using different methods. Brown did so. He also concluded that the shroud had been mended with newer material.

Since then, a team of nine scientists at Los Alamos has also confirmed Rogers work, also with different methods and procedures. Much of this new information has been recently published in Chemistry Today.

Article: The custodians of time

Written by Episcopalian

February 19, 2009 at 6:12 pm

Posted in Carbon 14 Dating

Evolution and the Shroud of Turin

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Cross posted form http://www.one-episcopalian-on-faith.com/

JMWJim Wharton has written an interesting article entitled, “The Skeleton in Evolution’s Closet.” You will want to read the entire article but let me extract a few pieces. He is writing about a The Wall Street Journal review by Philip Kitcher of Jerry A. Coyne’s new book, “Why Evolution is True.” There is much I agree with and disagree with in Wharton’s piece. He writes:

Unfortunately for Mr. [sic: Dr. or Professor] Coyne, his book follows on the coattails of many other books on the same subject. Consequently . . . such a frequency of books on the subject has forcefully interjected a strong element of suspicion of all evolutionary authors’ motives into the debate. The most conclusive observation on such evolution apologists now becomes “The lady doth protest too much methinks.” (Shakespeare from Hamlet).

The key fallacy in Mr. Coyne’s and other apologists’ approach to evolution is their argument inferentially excludes the existence of God. This exclusion of God causes great annoyance and displeasure for most people living on the planet. The heart of Mr. Coyne’s argument is “Life on earth evolved gradually beginning with one primitive species—perhaps a self-replicating molecule—that lived more than 3.5 billion years ago: it then branched out over time throwing off many and diverse species; and the mechanism for most (but not all) of evolutionary change is natural selection.” This removes God from the equation of life on the planet. Our uncle, the monkey, is really not a monkey at all. He has been replaced by a mere self-replicating molecule. That’s even more distressing.

There is absolutely nothing distressing about that. I know that Professor Wharton was speaking metaphorically, but it needs to be said nonetheless that humans did not evolve from monkeys. We are certainly closely related to modern apes.  Humans, homo sapiens,  share a common ancestor with modern apes, African gorillas and chimpanzees.

As for Wharton’s assertion that “[The] exclusion of God causes great annoyance and displeasure for most people living on the planet,” well maybe or maybe not. We can, for some perspective, consider how Americans might feel from Gallup surveys.  Gallup has developed three categories, given them definition, and polled the public. The three categories, which have stayed pretty much the same for the last 30 years, are:

  • Creationism (Young Earth): God created man pretty much in his present form at one time within the last 10,000 years. 44% of the general population believes this but only 5% of scientists do.
  • Theistic Evolution: Man has developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life, but God guided this process, including man’s creation. 39% of the general population believes this, but so do 40% of scientists.
  • Naturalist Evolution: Man has developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life. God had no part in this process. Only 10% of the population believes this but 55% of scientist do.

Wharton continues:

The exclusion of God, as one of the consequential central theses of most evolutionists is defended by their hiding behind a subjective and biased utilization of their cherished scientific method.

No, Jim, it is OUR scientific method. The scientific method, is an ever-evolving product of philosophy, not science: Descartes, Peirce and Popper, for instance. 

Like Mr. Coyne, their fallacy is they universally reject the possibility of God by refusing to take even the first step into a scientific investigation of the possibility of God. That is to say, they never objectively ask the question “is there a god?” This does not mean that no scientist ever asked the question however, the scientific method demands “hard objective evidence” (according to their definition of evidence) to support the conclusion. With this ingrained bias of most evolutionists, if not also most scientists, it is impossible to conduct a scientific investigation of the existence of God because all evidence suggesting a spiritual existence is classified as “not hard and objective.” The rejection by evolutionists and scientists of the entire class of evidence they exclude because it does not conform to “their definition of objective” violates their own scientific methodology.

I simply disagree. But I see where you are going and I’m sympathetic.

The evidence chain Science chooses to ignore contains the observations and experiences of millions of individuals of the human species over time. Mankind, in every culture, has observed the presence of a higher power as long as mankind has existed. Scientists’ explanations of any spiritual experience, however, are always “a mind playing tricks on its owner.”

Which is not scientific. The mind does play tricks but there is no basis for assuming any spiritual experience is “a mind playing tricks on its owner.”  That is a belief.

The rejection by the scientific community of the massive body of evidence under the classification of “spiritual” is, in itself, an unforgivable chasm of ignorance. What science fails to understand about this spiritual class evidence is, like any other evidence, constructive and methodical examination is required to separate the valid from the invalid.

But that doesn’t make it scientific. It isn’t the job of the scientist, as a scientist, to examine “spiritual” data, no matter how substantial or credible it seems. But it is a fair task for philosophers, theologians and historians.

So should a scientist, if he must or should ignore some information, even ask the question: does God exist? If, as I suspect, most monotheists believe God is beyond space and time, we cannot observe him directly (granted, a priori). The best we can do is look for evidence of his work within space and time. Or the lack of any evidence, as the case may be.

Dr. Coyne, Richard Dawkins, PZ Myers and a host of evolutionary biologists find no need for a creator god within and because of the Theory of Evolution. Lacking such evidence they choose not to believe that God exists. That’s fine. I have not problem with that. But they assert that this clearly shows that there is no God and that is problematic for it assumes, without any evidence . . .

  1. that evolution is not God’s way
  2. that we should not believe in anything for which there is insufficient scientific evidence.

Mark Thompson at The League of Ordinary Gentlemen recently wrote:

Religion is not science, and in attempting to gain acceptance as a science, it allows itself to be treated on the same terms as science.  In other words, it begs to be treated as if it were falsifiable, when the entire point in faith is that it is something that is unfalsifiable.  Worse, it forces religion to get tied up in arguments that have precious little to do with the elements of faith that are so very important: things like morality, conscience, meaning, etc.  And so it loses the forest for the trees, to use a cliche.

But similarly, science demeans itself when it used as a proof of the non-existence of god.  Science is not meant to provide unfalsifiable answers, nor is it intended to answer questions that can only admit of unfalsifiable answers.  To do so is to turn the scientific method on its head.  And in so doing, science demeans itself because it loses part of its very essence.

I think he is spot on.

Thus, I am intrigued that Wharton should mention the Shroud of Turin in this context. I disagree with some of what he writes about it but he has raised an interesting issue, one where I think we see a real failing on the part of scientists.

Let’s look at what he wrote:

The Shroud of Turin is another example of the rigor applied by the Catholic Church to the verification of miracles.

Even though I think the Catholic Church has been extraordinarily irresponsible with the care and scientific investigation of this artifact, I agree.

The Shroud of Turin apparently dates from the first century and is considered by many to be the burial shroud of Jesus Christ.

All to easily, I have used the word apparently. May is a better choice. It may date  from the first century. The carbon dating from 1988 (showing 1260 to 1390 CE) has now been sufficiently invalidated. This is widely acknowledged in peer reviewed scientific journals. Christopher Ramsey, the head of the Oxford lab, which participated in the 1988 tests, has called for new studies. Other scientific tests push it back to at least 700 CE. Fairly good historical evidence pushes it back to at least the sixth century. Two observations by textile experts offer some evidence of close proximity to the first century.

The position of the Church is that it neither confirms nor denies the authenticity of the Shroud. While the Shroud has been examined many times by many experts who have offered conflicting opinions on its authenticity, no one has been able to figure out how the full length image of Christ’s body was imprinted on the cloth itself.

To be accurate, it is the image of an apparently crucified man. One may only infer that it is Christ.  The fact that no one has been able to figure out how the image was formed does not mean that someone will not do so. 

Many people, including experts, believe the image, which is an exact photographic negative, . . .

While it is true that the image seems and acts like a photographic negative, this may not be completely so. An exact photographic (monochromatic) negative of a human form would span a significant part of the full grayscale spectrum from white to black. The image on the shroud is highly compressed into less than a fifth of the grayscale towards the white end of spectrum. In photography, this happens from underexposure and results in significant loss of detail. The shroud image contains the detail. It is only with modern day image enhancement techniques that we can force it look like an exact photographic negative.  Moreover, because the image is truly a topograph (an analog 3D dataset, e.g. spatial data), it is not photographic in any sense of the word.

. . . was formed by a radiation like burst of energy.

Most scientist that I know (or have corresponded with) have serious reservations about this idea, not so much because they think the idea of a burst of energy is absurd (and many do) but because there is no evidence to support this idea. The image is superficial (about 200 to 800 nanometers deep at most) and no known type of radiation would act to produce such an image.

They conclude that this is proof of Christ’s Resurrection.

I know of only one scientist, John Jackson of Colorado Springs, who thinks this. Many think, instead, that the image may have been formed by some yet unexplained natural phenomenon, perhaps an amino/carbonyl reaction between natural saccharide compounds on the cloth and amino gases emitted by a body.

While it would be an easy leap to ascribe a miraculous event to the creation of the cloth, the Church stops short of that conclusion. Based on the considerable evidence which I have seen as well as many expert (scientific and not) analyses of the cloth, I personally believe the Shroud of Turin is the authentic burial Shroud of Jesus and is material proof of his Resurrection. However, I would leave open the possibility that a credible, contrary explanation for the creation of the cloth could be provided in the future.

I, too, believe that the shroud is authentic. But proof, so far, is elusive.  Having said that, I also complain because there as a lack if scientifically-minded skeptics to challenge my belief and the belief of many people, some who all too easily accept authenticity.

In 1988, dozens of scientists participated in the carbon dating of the shroud. Three outstanding radiocarbon dating labs at Oxford University, the University of Arizona and the Federal Institute of Technology in Zurich participated. The British Museum and the Archdiocese of Turin participated in supervisory roles. The conclusion: the shroud’s cloth was manufactured between 1260 and 1390 CE. The shroud, it seemed, could not be authentic.

What followed next is not well understood: There were a number of people after 1988, including several scientists, who were not convinced that the carbon dating results were right. In part, this was because there was a mountain of other evidence that suggested a much earlier provenance for the shroud and there were some very puzzling mysteries about the nature of the image. Some speculated on why the carbon dating might be wrong but none of the proposals seemed very scientific. It was mostly hypotheses that could not be falsified (ala Popper).

Two researchers, Sue Benford and Joe Marino, who were not scientists, proposed that the cloth had been mended in the seventeenth century in a corner from which the carbon dating samples were taken and thus what had been dated was probably a mixture of original cloth (presumably first century) and newer thread.

Raymond Rogers, a Fellow of the Los Alamos Laboratory was perplexed by this proposal that seemed to him very unscientific. As a chemist, he had personally examined the shroud in 1978, warning church official that he would report whatever he found. As it turns out, he did NOT offer an opinion on the cloth’s authenticity because there were too many unanswered questions. However, in 1988, he accepted the carbon dating results and withdrew from further shroud study. When he read about what Benford and Marino were suggesting, he was certain that they were wrong. They were, as he put it, part of the lunatic fringe of shroud research. He knew that he could prove they were wrong. He had some reserved material from the sample corner and set out to do so.

Much to Rogers’ surprise, Benford and Marino were right. Rogers not only found substantial evidence of mending, he found stark chemical differences between the corner from which the carbon dating sample had been taken and the rest of the cloth. If there were chemical differences then the sample could not be reliably considered to be representative of the whole cloth. This invalidated the carbon dating.

Before publishing his findings in the peer-reviewed journal, Thermochimica Acta (vol 425 [2005] pp 189–194) in 2005, Rogers, with Anna Arnoldi of the University of Milan, published an informal paper in 2002. Though it was widely distributed, it received no comment from those who had been involved in the carbon dating. It wasn’t until 2004 when the Journal of Research of the National Institute of Standards and Technology (U.S. Department of Commerce, NIST, U.S.
Government Printing Office) published an important paper by Lloyd A. Currie. Currie, a highly regarded specialist in the field of radiocarbon dating and an NIST Fellow Emeritus, wrote a seminal retrospective on carbon 14 dating. Because the Shroud of Turin was such a famous test, Currie devoted much of his paper to it.
Like Rogers, Currie dismissed any argument that radiocarbon labs had done anything wrong in dating the Shroud of Turin. Currie also rejected, as Rogers also had done, other very unscientific proposal. But Currie did acknowledge that disguised mending was a viable explanation. He cited the work of Rogers and Arnoldi. He found it credible.

Rogers also asked John Brown, a materials forensic expert from Georgia Tech to confirm his finding using different methods. Brown did so. He also concluded that the shroud had been mended with newer material.

Since then, a team of nine scientists at Los Alamos has also confirmed Rogers work, also with different methods and procedures. Much of this new information has recently been published in Chemistry Today.

Sadly, with the invalidation of the carbon dating, criticism of the shroud, mostly on secular humanist and atheist sites has degenerated into unwarrented ridicule and ad hominem attacks:

A constant refrain is that believers in the shroud think that the image was formed by a burst of radiation from the resurrection. This simply isn’t true (though it is frequently repeated in the press because of constant press releases emanating from John Jackson). Also, we frequently hear that those who think the shroud is real are are religious fanatics or fundamentalists. Again this isn’t true. In fact, many fundamentalists and fanatical biblical literalists reject any possibility that the Shroud of Turin is genuine based on a very narrow interpretation of the Gospel of John.

Professor, Dr. Jerry A. Coyne, who was the topic of discussion at the top of this posting and in Professor Wharton’s posting, stepped in it. Three days after Wharton published his blog posting, on February 4, 2009, Coyne wrote, simply, these words:

Holy relics, such as the Shroud of Turin, have turned out to be clever fakes.

Oh? This scientist who abhors, as he does, non-scientific claims, inaccurate information and inadequate research, has made a claim that would be hard if not impossible to substantiate. There have only been two scientifically-based claims that the shroud is fake: 1) a 1978 claim of finding paint particles that was never peer-reviewed but refuted in several peer-reviewed scientific journals and 2) the carbon dating. However refuting evidence that it is fake does not make it real.

The date Coyne ignored was scientific data. He should stick to explaining why evolution is true and stay away from topics he does not understand – such as God and the Shroud of Turin.

Jim Wharton has helped us all see this.

Written by Episcopalian

February 12, 2009 at 11:06 pm

Television Special Feb 1: Unwrapping the Shroud: New Evidence

with 4 comments

Discovery-logoIn case you missed it, t he Discovery Channel will be rebroadcasting “Unwrapping the Shroud: New Evidence” on Sunday February 1 at 9 p.m. EST and again 4 hours later at 1 a.m.  (Check your local listings). It will be broadcast on Discovery’s regular and HD channels.

This Shroud of Turin documentary was first shown in December and received numerous positive reviews. Part of it was recorded at Ohio State University during a conference of about 100 scientists, historians and other researchers last August.

Discovery is featuring the broadcast on their home page and that is warranted. In my opinion, it is the best documentary ever made about the shroud, even better than the 2002 PBS special. Watch it!

It clearly explains why the previous carbon dating has been shown to be invalid by peer-reviewed scientific studies including the work of Raymond Roger and subsequently a team of nine scientists at the Los Alamos National Laboratory.

If you have wondered about the shroud, this is an excellent production. Even if you are skeptical, it will help explain why many people believe it is genuine or are at least open to the possibility that it is.

Source: Unwrapping the Shroud: New Evidence to be Rebroadcast on the Discovery Channel

Written by Episcopalian

January 30, 2009 at 4:47 pm